Azadeh Neman is a teacher, NEU member and Iranian activist. She spoke to Middle East Solidarity on the second anniversary of the murder of Mahsa Jina Amini by the Iranian state and the eruption of mass protests under the slogan ‘Woman, Life, Freedom’.

MES: Two years after the murder of Mahsa Jina Amini can we say that the uprising sparked by these events changed Iran? And if so how?

AN: It has, in different ways. Firstly it showed the regime has no connection to young people. It showed the regime’s lack of control. There were demonstrations every week. It showed the regime had lost control of women. And despite the severe consequences of being attacked by the regime, people continued to protest. 

Eighteen thousand were arrested and we did not know what happened to them. Very violent repression continued and the massive street demonstrations stopped. But there have been demonstrations nearly every Tuesday by different groups, like retired people from all different professions. Since the uprising different professions have continued to organise. There are new associations of workers, for example health workers. These different organisations are making demands, simple basic demands like we want a safe working environment, we want safe infrastructure in our schools and factories, we want decent pay, we would like water in our schools. 

The regime can’t meet even these simple, basic demands. So when these demands are ignored they become political demands. The regime can’t justify why it can’t meet any of them. So there is a drip, drip effect, that will hopefully crack the wall of the regime. The failure to deliver shows the regime is incapable of doing anything for people, so they are losing their base. 

MES: Looking back at the development of the Woman Life Freedom movement, what do you think were its strengths and what were its weaknesses?

One of the strengths was women realising that there was no chance that within the constitution of the regime, they would get their freedoms.

Another thing that happened was the movement overcame the divisions that the regime tries to create between different minorities: religious minorities, racial minorities. The chanting and singing on the demonstrations for Kurdistan, Baluchistan and other minorities, showed that people understood you cannot have a democracy when any group of people have had their rights taken from them. 

A big step for the movement was asking for a secular government, for the separation of religion from the state, for religion to be private. This was one of the demands of unions and workers. This was so important after 40 years of religious government.

The weaknesses of the movement maybe came from the fact that we lost too many good people to murder, torture and sanctions by the government. We need to work out ways of how to confront a regime like this one. There needs to be leadership from within the movement. People are very brave. On the day commemorating Masha’s murder people in the prisons were singing and chanting revolutionary songs which were recorded and sent out to the people on social media. This is inspiring for everyone.

MES:  Did the regime change how it enforced the mandatory hijab laws as a result of the uprising and if so what has happened since the uprising ended? 

AN: Yes and no. You get contradictory comments from the government hardliners and so-called moderates. But the moderates have no power, or maybe the will to change anything. They do a lot of messaging that confuses people. So you get someone saying we never had enforced hijab. While at the same time women are being beaten up, taken into vans and never seen again. The state murdered another girl just last month. But this is all the government has – it just has violence. They adopted a new law, which literally means they can fire at will with no consequences.They are very violent thugs funded by the state, but no one controls them. I was in Iran when Ahmadinejad was head of the government. My family members and I witnessed thugs on motorcycles then. One would drive and the other would slash and beat people. It’s clear to people that this regime cannot let go of the hijab, they want control over women. 

They have other problems. A regime must control the army and the police and intelligence. But these are heavily factionalised now, the state is not one body working together. The revolutionary guards, the Baseej, and definitely not the new president, have control of the streets of Iran. 

MES: Have Iranian activists made any links between the demands of the Woman Life Freedom uprising and the Palestinian struggle for freedom? 

AN: Not exactly. The Iranian people have always supported the Palestinian people. But they oppose Hamas and other organisations in Palestine. They are against the genocide, recognising Palestinians’ basic human rights, and now the right to life, have been taken away. Our movements are different but I believe the aims are the same, the removal of hardline religious regimes.  

MES: How do ordinary Iranians inside Iran view the regime’s support for Palestine? What was the response to the rocket and drone attacks on Israeli targets by the regime? 

AN: They are laughing at it. WhatsApp and other channels show Iranians believe it’s all a show, a facade. Everyone knows the regime gave the Israelis huge notice  of the attacks. And they ask what did it achieve? They know the regime wants to show an anti-imperialist face, and to present itself as the defender of Muslims everywhere. Some see the regime as using their opposition to Palestinian suffering just to help cement the loyalty of their base. 

MES: Do you think that the Woman Life Freedom movement will revive in future? 

AN: Yes, I think so. The movement isn’t dead, it has changed. It needs to organise, educate, and agitate until there is a strong enough association of workers. The mothers of the young people killed will never give up. These mothers touch the core of the society. The new generation has no faith in the government because they have seen many mothers like them grieving, seeking justice for their children, and not giving up even when they face arrest, jail and attacks. This group of women who suffered as mothers keep the movement alive. When the Iranian activists have organised, and formed a vision of the future they have for Iran, they will be back.